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Post by Heikki Toivonen on Jul 17, 2005 5:05:38 GMT -5
another thread.
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Post by Cambridge Brackenfield on Jul 18, 2005 19:22:06 GMT -5
"I am a secularist. I don't really care if God exists or not. I just think religion and God should be a private affair. So, I can't say that I believe or don't believe. I just don't care if God is there or not there. I have my life to live and whatever happens when I die, happens." Cambridge explains.
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Post by Tom McLeod on Jul 18, 2005 19:23:36 GMT -5
"Well I certainly agree that the State has no right to shove a religion down our throats, since that's unfair, unethical and against what most of the religions and all the socialists would want anyways."
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Post by Li Winters on Jul 18, 2005 19:24:51 GMT -5
"I have some issues with religion. I think that it has a negative impact on society. More people have died because Christianity than for any other belief system. But I am talking about genocide against native Americans and the gendercide against witches." I reply.
"And then there is Muslim terrorism, a major issue today."
"I think that religion is a counter revolutionary factor in society."
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Post by Vissarion Myatezhnei on Jul 18, 2005 19:27:34 GMT -5
"Those are both good points, and I don't think it's fair to condemn a thing based on the actions of a few people hundreds of years ago. Anyways what I was saying is you can actually learn something about socialisim from religion. Look at all the major faiths, they have split and the splits have split for centuries before Marx was even born. Sometimes the factions pull together, sometimes they don't..."
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Post by Cambridge Brackenfield on Jul 18, 2005 19:28:46 GMT -5
"It's kind of hard to seperate church and state when the people who work for the government normally practice some religion or another, which gives them a set of morals and ideas of how things should be. This doesn't always agree with what is natural or the gradual changes in society."
"I guess I have some issues with religion too. I don't think it should be banned or religious people should be persecuted, but I do see how it is a roadblock to change.when morals are involved"
"I don't agree with the traditional gender roles prescribed by most religions, or their sexual morals."
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Post by Tom McLeod on Jul 18, 2005 19:31:15 GMT -5
I simply listen at this point, and feel a little out of my league. I've only ever really looked at my own religion, instead spending my time looking at socialisim.
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Post by Li Winters on Jul 18, 2005 19:32:11 GMT -5
"I don't think there is an expiration date on something unjust. To me, slavery will always be wrong and history will always be marked with its blackness."
"So too, history will always be marked and shaped by the evils done in the name of certain religions."
"There is too much religious conflict even today, and I certainly hear both Muslims and Christians saying cruel things about one another."
"And why? For what? There is no God to be glorified by hate and bloodshed."
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Post by Vissarion Myatezhnei on Jul 18, 2005 19:32:20 GMT -5
"I think all of us here would agree on that last point, and though there's nothing wrong with morality in general we do need to examine it to make sure it's what we really want and that it in fact helps us."
"You do know that even if God only exists in the minds of his followers he can be just as powerful as if he was standing in the room, right? I don't mean to be at odds with you, but I'm saying a lot of people believe in it enough to die for it."
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Post by Cambridge Brackenfield on Jul 18, 2005 19:35:09 GMT -5
"Anyway, yeah, religion should just be a private thing. After the revolution and things start getting better on this world, I think a lot of people will give up their religious beliefs anyway. They just won't have a purpose anymore. Who needs heaven right?"
"But until then, I guess people should be free to believe whatever they want to, so long as it doesn't harm others."
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Post by Li Winters on Jul 18, 2005 19:37:02 GMT -5
"Yes, I agree." I say to Cambridge. Sometimes I wonder why people believe in Gods or Goddesses. To me it seems so far fetched.
I get up and get some more tea.
"Beliefs are powerful. I don't doubt that and realize that religion has changed history for good and for bad."
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Post by Tom McLeod on Jul 18, 2005 19:37:25 GMT -5
I glance at all of them, feeling put off but I try very hard not to show it. "Well I don't see why people can't have more than one belief, but that's just my opinion."
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Post by Cambridge Brackenfield on Jul 18, 2005 19:41:43 GMT -5
"Yeah, I think people can believe more than one thing." Cambridge replies, but doesn't want the conversation to escalate too much. Things feel a little tense at the moment. "I think most religions are more supportive of socialism than capitalism anyway. And the most religious people are the ones the least concerned about private property and personal wealth."
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Post by Tom McLeod on Jul 18, 2005 19:45:04 GMT -5
"That's a very good point." I agree.
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Post by Cambridge Brackenfield on Jul 18, 2005 19:48:36 GMT -5
"Well, we argue about religion, but it has just been shaped and abused by capitalism the same way human nature, family, gender, the state, or anything else is."
"The point is, that these things are all maleable and can be defined different ways in the interests of different people. Right now, all of these things are being used to prop up capitalism, so of course I have some bitterness with them."
"But it isn't a flaw in religion or say, family or the gender, but a flaw in capitalism and how it warps ideas and institutions to best fit its interest."
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